The Worst Intersection in my County is our roundabout...

"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213) 08/17/2015 at 11:20 • Filed to: driving, roundabout, government, planning, accidents

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There is an intersection in my town. It has many nicknames including “The Circle of Death” and “An example of our wasted tax dollars” as well as “The worst damn intersection in the area”. Back in 2011, my county spent $3.2 million dollars to change a normal intersection into a roundabout. And it failed miserably.

I first should explain my town to you. It is a very old town; with the median age being around 69 years old; one of the oldest in the nation. It is also a tourist trap. When the weather gets even a tiny bit cold, thousands flock down, making the roads and stores way more congested.

This intersection is right off of an exit at I-75. The area wasn’t as built up as it is now which was the supposed reasoning behind the roundabout. Having lived here for over 13 years, I can say that the light was kind of slow, but at least it worked safely. Sure the turn lanes seemed to sit through two cycles, since they never went first and you couldn’t go right on red, but it did its job.

The roundabout connects the highway with the main city and surrounding neighborhoods. Because of this, it experiences quite a bit of traffic. In order to try and combat this issue, they made it two lanes. For most people, this is where the main issue is.

Many of these drivers in the area are not familiar with roundabouts. The two lanes make it even more difficult and confusing to navigate. Combine that with poor signage and confusing arrows on the asphalt, and you are simply asking for trouble. Many drivers don’t hold their lane, or dart across lanes at the last second which cause accidents.

This intersection has become so bad, many drivers, myself included simply avoid taking it. My best friend got sideswiped in his Jeep by some man who didn’t yield properly to traffic. A buddy who rides a motorcycle got taken out by a last second lane changer. Within its first week of opening, there was a head on collision by a confused man who went the wrong way around it and hit a car head on.

But don’t just take my word for it:

Statistics show that traffic count at the intersection decreased by around 45% as drivers simply want to find a different route. With the light in 2007, about 66,000 vehicles used the intersection daily. Since its opening in 2011, the roundabout has seen about 34,000 vehicles a day.

Also keep in mind that being off the interstate, many semi trucks, buses, and RVs use this intersection. To someone unfamiliar with the area, this can prove to be a disaster. The route is also one that leads to the hospital. Speeding ambulances and police cars are common here, which stops the traffic in its place since there isn’t really anywhere to safely pull over.

The severity of the collisions has gone down dramatically. This is due to the speed limit being only 15 MPH; it was 45 MPH with the intersection. Yet, since its opening, accident rates have quadrupled.

There were 11 accidents in 2008 and 2009 with the light. In 2012, we experienced 52. 2013 had 57 fender benders. 2014 saw 50 accidents. This is almost 30% worse than any other intersection in our whole county. The accident rate here is about 4.16 per volume of daily traffic. A 2.0 rate is considered a critical intersection by the county.

So far, the county not only plans on leaving this one as is, but also intends on building 16 more in the area! They say eliminating a lane would cause more congestion. But, at least in my opinion, it would still move faster than when closed by an accident. So far, they talk about issuing new signage and educating people on how to drive it properly. Now we just wait and see...

Top image source: Google Maps. Other sources include The Herald Tribune and their respective Facebook page.

FazeRacer > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:25

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Fucking people and roundabouts. They aren’t rocket science, people that can’t understand how they work need their licenses taken away. Where I live they use them a lot to regulate traffic, yet no one knows how they work. People don’t yield to drivers in the roundabout, people drive the wrong way in them, people don’t know what lane to be in despite the dozen or so signs that tell them what lane to be in.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:26

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Which exit is this? Kind of surprised I haven’t been through it yet.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:28

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I drive roundabouts worse than that every day. We have shit like this here:

Drivers ed in the US needs to be better.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:28

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It took me about three days of solid driving in the UK to “get” roundabouts. Having just one in an area unfamiliar with them is a recipe for disaster, *theoretical* improvements of a perfectly used roundabout to the contrary. I still prefer standard intersections massively, just due to better preservation of directionality. A roundabout loses some of the intuitive sense of the left lane going immediately left, the center lane going straight, and the right lane going right, and when in a country that depends as heavily on cardinal E/W and N/S road patterning as most of the US, it’s no good.

Cé hé sin > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 11:35

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“Drivers ed in the US needs to be better.”

They’ve hardly got any! In some states there isn’t even a test...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 11:36

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Quite a lot of driver’s ed programs in the US don’t have a proper roundabout even within range to teach on. Roundabouts are simply so rare here that the average driver has no chance to form the necessary *habits* necessary. There’s an intuitive sense you pick up of how to navigate them when you’ve done enough, but I didn’t have it until after several days of driving in the UK - doing roundabouts incessantly. The average driver here has no opportunity - and no need, either, until some farce-minded administrative asshat decides one is necessary somewhere never seen before.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/17/2015 at 11:37

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And that’s exactly the issue. Lets change an intersection that has been normal for over 20 years and make it totally new. Lets not train anyone on how to use it. We will just let all the older locals just learn through experience.

It doesn’t work that way. Im sure to a European its fine. But it’s new to most everyone in this area.

Ash78, voting early and often > Cé hé sin 08/17/2015 at 11:38

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I just learned now that our area issues them straight out of the Driver’s Ed class itself. There’s no nerve-wracking DMV involvement at all anymore.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/17/2015 at 11:38

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Well the basics are very simple though, they could at least drum the basics into you during the written test. Give way to your left (right here in the UK) keep lane positioning as instructed and use your mirrors when needed.

Ash78, voting early and often > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/17/2015 at 11:40

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They definitely have the roundabout thing figured out, but it helps to have a good navigator. Depending on where you are, cardinal directions can be uncommon in the UK and you just have to point the car the direction of the town on the road you’d like to take. This is hard when you don’t know every town along the way. But a good navigator can help by reading ahead and saying “take the 2 o’clock” and you know exactly where to go.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 08/17/2015 at 11:40

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193. If you ever come to one of our car meets (you totally should) youd take it

Svart Smart, traded in his Smart > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:42

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Oof. I don’t like multi-lane roundabouts. Not because I don’t get them, but because other drivers tend to have problems staying in their lane.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 11:42

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I agree they probably should, because there are just enough locations spread throughout the States (by similar twerps to these) to really ruin one’s day if coming upon one by surprise. No substitute for actual experience, and doesn’t refresh any of the older drivers, but it would be better than nothing.

Hiroku > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:43

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Looks like a perfectly normal roundabout to me. But I guess I can understand how it can be completely alien to someone who has driven for years and never ever seen one in their lives.

Guess it’s one of those things that is much better than what’s standard practice in theory (like the zipper-merge technique) but doesn’t work in practice because of people’s lack of understanding and/or willingness to put it to proper use.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/17/2015 at 11:43

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Yeah I get that they’re seriously uncommon but they should at least try to educate people as well as possible.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:44

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Ahh, I know where this is now. I just never take that exit because it’s so close to mine. Where/when are your meets?

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Hiroku 08/17/2015 at 11:45

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Exactly the issue. This is the first one in our area. We have a bunch of people who have lived here for over 30 years and never seen one before. Now they put it at a rather important intersection without any training and expect it to work flawlessly

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Svart Smart, traded in his Smart 08/17/2015 at 11:46

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One lane would solve most anything wrong here honestly. Especially since it only had 4 exits.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Ash78, voting early and often 08/17/2015 at 11:46

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The worst is when you have multi-lane roundabouts linked together in short series of twos, threes, and even fours with no linearity and no cross-communication, so if you turn wrong, you have to head down a section of A-road and correctly manage the next roundabout (possibly a double) to pull a U-ie and come back and try to land in the right lane again. Plays merry hell with one’s sense of direction. I got lost the first day in northeast London like you wouldn’t believe.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 11:46

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Looks like civil engineer’s ed needs to be better there.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 11:47

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First off: No. Nope. No way.

Second, we don’t even parallel park here in Fl for the test!

Also, my test consisted of driving down a little two way neighborhood road at speeds of 30 MPH. And one stop sign.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 08/17/2015 at 11:50

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Haha yeah I have no idea whose idea that was.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:54

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That’s bonkers...

My test was almost an hour and covered speed limits from 20mph to 60mph and a fair bit of low speed manoeuvring. Not to mention stop signs, one way streets, roundabouts, intersections.

Plus I had to do two of them...

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 11:56

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If it makes you feel better.. We had to do a J turn. On a closed section of road which was wider than a normal road.

Oh and back up in a straight line for 50 feet.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 11:59

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That’s it?! Here they’re even thinking about making it mandatory to have a certain number of instructed driving hours before you can even take the test (btw I feel this is overkill). A friend of mine has learners insurance on his car so that anyone with over 3 years experience and who’s over 21 (ie me) can teach him to drive in his car. That alone cost about $900.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Cé hé sin 08/17/2015 at 12:00

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I know, their system scares me somewhat. Especially with their insistence on more powerful and larger vehicles.

The Dummy Gummy > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 12:01

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People are terrible drivers to begin with, circles just amplify it and make it so much worse. Last minute lane changers (crossing from out-most lane to inner most lane) have almost taken me out six+ this summer. It is infuriating.

Nymphicus Hollandicus > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 12:11

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There are several that I have used (near my hometown and at school) and you don’t know how many times people have almost hit me because they can’t stay in their lanes, it’s just as bad as dual turn lanes. This is just one reason why driver’s education needs to be more difficult. Same goes with right of way on these. People only know how to accelerate and smash into things. I think a there’s a reason your county is putting more of these though, that way body shops, police stations, car dealers and insurance agents make money, and as always, the consumer (aka you) always loses! Seems like quality Florida intelligence to me!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 12:14

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How the EFF do you get to CVS, this is the real question.

Ash78, voting early and often > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2015 at 12:24

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True, but I could equally argue that the UK should implement handgun education for everyone on the off-chance that 10% of the population might see a handgun once every 5 years :D

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Ash78, voting early and often 08/17/2015 at 12:27

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But to shoot a handgun you need a licence that teaches you how to use it, to drive a roundabout you only need a licence that doesn’t. A friend of mine has a shotgun and rifle licence and he had/has to jump through a lot of hoops to retain it and that’s only because he needs it for work. He never even uses live rounds.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 12:45

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Roundabouts are great, with some caveats:

- 2 lanes max, so people cutting across lanes,

- People need to be familiar with their operation.

Bearing in mind the second point, building 16 more doesn’t seem like a bad idea. The more familiar they become, the less hassle they will be to people, and you will see flow benefits. Building the first one right off a highway exit is a stupid idea. They should be kept in less populated areas and slowly force themselves on more populated areas. That way, people will be able to get to grips with them in a safer environment, but because you are putting more and more in, they can’t be avoided. If they can’t be avoided, they must be faced. If they must be faced, they will eventually be mastered. However to speed up/increase safety during the “mastering process”, they shouldn’t just be put there and left for the public to figure out. The government should be providing information about them. In Ontario, when plans were put in place to replace many standard intersections with roundabouts, the MTO put out articles in the main media outlets about how to navigate them safely.

Other things that could be done include:

- For those turning right, make a bypass lane. They don’t need to enter the roundabout. Then you can use a single lane roundabout instead of a double.

- For higher speed areas, use Michigan-style left turns (I don't know the correct term for these, but I love them) with syncronized lights at the main intersections and right turns only at minor intersections.

Z06blake > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 13:19

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So basically, the problem is not with the intersection, but with the drivers who don’t know how navigate through one.

greasemonkey235097 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 15:26

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Roundabouts, when used properly, keeps traffic moving, and druvers alert, but when people that should not be driving, and are not properly trained, its just a recepy for disaster. In central Nj there are some roundabouts that have yield signs in them! Yes you are going in the roundabout and have to stop, how is that for insanity, left me scratchimg my head, and almost ramming to the person in front of me. Only in the US

WiscoProud > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 16:04

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They've been dumping roundabouts all over Wisconsin. I'm still not a fan, but at least I know how to do them. Most of the ones I drive on seem to have been there long enough for people to get used to them thankfully.

RampagingNewt > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 20:26

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Having learned to drive in this area many years ago, not to mention having a motorcycle as primary transportation for a while, the thought of having this intersection dropped on to this road would scare the beejesus out of me. Granted this was nearly 30 years ago, but having been hit while driving my dad’s truck on US 41 and getting rear ended at a gas pump didn’t give me a very positive view of elderly drivers. I now commute in the DC/Baltimore metro areas daily and would still approach this intersection with an abundance of caution.

Nauraushaun > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/17/2015 at 23:16

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The US doesn’t have roundabouts? Weird.

I don’t think those road markings could be any clearer. We don’t have markings quite like that, but it still makes sense: those in the left can go left, those in the right can go right. Either can go straight. It’s almost impossible to mess up. I think it’d be intuitive enough without the markings.

Nauraushaun > Nauraushaun 08/17/2015 at 23:16

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There are all sorts of jokes to be had here about Americans can’t drive, it’s sort of a gold mine. I’m not going anywhere near it.

Nauraushaun > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/17/2015 at 23:17

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I think it is pretty intuitive. You still can’t go left from the right lane and vice versa, what sane person would assume you could?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/18/2015 at 08:06

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Where/when are your meets?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/18/2015 at 08:16

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I love rotaries/ roundabouts but 2 lanes ones suck. The times I hate them are when some ass from out of state comes to visit.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Nauraushaun 08/18/2015 at 08:42

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You misunderstand. The damage to directional intuition is done by all lanes changing direction and going around, not the relation of the lanes one to another. The crossing of traffic to the inside lane on entry is also not obvious to some who are wholly unfamiliar, and depending on the number of exits, knowing exactly when and where the outside lane is shaved off to leave the inside lane open to exit can be impossible. This leaves a situation in which people needing to go through find themselves forced off the road *unless they immediately change lanes inward*, or find themselves unable to access their exit *unless they immediately change lanes outward*.

This style of roundabout is more consistent than some which have differently sized roads, which shave off lanes entirely based on the size and position of the road, not a consistent add-one, subtract-one basis. It’s still not crystal clear except from above, and what you take as intuition *has to be learned*. The signage at the intersection usually explains lane pairing by exit, but my experience driving in the UK was that often lesser roads weren’t signed well, so counting ones way through the exits wasn’t all reliable. The signage here is less than excellent, and wholly unfamiliar.

To boil things down a bit, it’s not about going left from the right lane, it’s about knowing how long to stay in the “left” lane before jumping into what *was* the right lane and turning right to go what *was* left - a more complicated proposition. It’s also about being able to divine when exactly to turn right to *continue going straight*, and how to know exactly which lane accomodates that. It’s somewhat intuitive, but wrong decisions and understanding are harder to parse as wrong until its too late, if someone is unfamiliar.

Particularly for the elderly. That is why introducing something like this into a community of the elderly, a new element to add to the driving habits of those who have driven without for 40 years, is nothing short of idiotic.

Nauraushaun > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/18/2015 at 10:00

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I see. I suppose to the unfamiliar it could be problematic. It’s just hard to wrap my head around, as someone who does this sort of thing nearly every time I drive.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/18/2015 at 10:20

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Which sadly is what my town thrives on.

And in the area they plan on adding another 10k homes

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 08/18/2015 at 10:25

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We have a really crazy meet every month or so down in Port Charlotte. Last one had over 200 cars until police decided it got out of hand and made us shut down (no one even did anything crazy. They just didnt like the idea of a group that large) they even sent in a helicopter which was funny and surprising.

Ill let you know when the next big one is since we are trying for a better location

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/18/2015 at 10:26

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Yeah, if Charlie’s working, I’ll drop by.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Nauraushaun 08/18/2015 at 10:31

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Much like riding a bicycle, the principle is internally consistent and once learned doesn’t really take any extra effort to recall or make use of... but in this country dropping roundabouts in random far-spaced locations is akin to asking a pedestrian who doesn’t own a bicycle to ride one across one and only one street in their town. Limited opportunity to learn, a guaranteed high percentage of the unfamiliar even if all the locals learn, and a pointless hurdle, even though in either case there’s a theoretical improvement (cyclists cross faster!). Appallingly stupid.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/18/2015 at 17:32

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Well if you must know:

You can’t simply go around the roundabout and enter across from the starting point because thats exit only :/

PS9 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/18/2015 at 17:59

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Whoever fucking designed that clearly has a burning passionate hatred for human beings.

Two Drink Minimum > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/18/2015 at 18:02

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My god... what is that thing?

Two Drink Minimum > Nauraushaun 08/18/2015 at 18:07

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Roundabouts are a regional thing in the US. Boston has tons of them. Washington, DC, does as well. And I grew up with roundabouts in Northeast Ohio (of all places). But a lot of US drivers will have rarely seen a roundabout in their lives, so when they happen upon one, hilarity ensues.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Two Drink Minimum 08/18/2015 at 18:15

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No one knows, but we think it crawled out of the sea.

Tohru > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 08/18/2015 at 19:57

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This was on the way to my old job at the casino:

The blue line was my path. All 3 are 2-lane roundabouts. I would pass slow-moving tourists in the roundabouts.